quick one on the apostasy decision
Only a very quick one, because I have shit to do. But I was reading Malaysiakini’s interviews with various MPs on whether ‘they’ should be allowed to leave Islam, and I am wondering why no one just say it out straight.
Like it or not, a lot of people (note that I am not saying ‘all’ but ‘a lot’; I know a mat salleh who converted BEFORE he met his Malay wife) go through the conversion because they want to marry and spend the rest of their lives[1] with the ones they love[2].
THAT’S IT! END OF STORY, SEKIAN TERIMA KASIH.
If they didn’t give a shit about their religions before, what makes you think they’d give a shit about their religions after?
So to Shafie Apdal who is the BN of Semporna (where’s that ar?), you are right to say that people cannot force people to embrace Islam. BUT their willingness to embrace Islam is because… well you can’t marry a Muslim unless you are a Muslim (by name) bla bla bla. SAY SO LAH. But if you want to make an in-depth research on why they want to renounce Islam in the first place, let me know okay so I can go bid for the very lucrative research project.
[1] These days it’s about 5 years
[2] This one will be 3.
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Tsk Tsk Suanie, such a cynic about love. This is in reference to [1] & [2] but then hey I am a fellow cynic too
About the topic at hand, yeah I had issues with that too since no matter what any guy who wants to be with me had to convert to be with me. Legally. Here. And to be honest, it’s more for my parents/family.
I felt bad of course because it was like holding love at gunpoint you know. You gotta do this, jump this buncha hoops to get me – for that 3/5 years until love/forever runs out
I was straightforward from the start and being guys sometimes they make promises to the moon & back in the beginning but at the end it was like .. eh i cannot, is hypocritical even though i’m of no religion so you decide what we’ll do now aka run away to be with me (wtf). Ok fine it was one guy and he was a total a**hat but that’s another story.
My current guy was fine with it surprisingly. He’s like a total Republican and comes from the South – which probably shows the extent of his love for me .. ahem, since if people in his parents neighbourhood found out they’ll pretty much ostracize his whole family because of what they know of the religion there. And yes obviously he only did it to marry me. I don’t expect him to be a devout anything.
Really should not be an issue in the first place if the dumbfuck bitch did not bother to date/marry a Muslim. Tan Ean Huang has only herself to be blamed for being desperate. So many non-Muslim men out there but she had to choose to date/marry one with a religion barrier KNOWINGLY this would be a problem. I have no pity for such stupid women. I pity her family, especially her parents. If I were the parents I would be disappointed with such a daughter.
Now, the extremist Muslims are going to use this as excuse that the DAP led government in Penang is insulting Islam and allowing Apostasy.
This issue is going to be played up by Umno and you see lah how they’re going to turn this nasty in the streets.
1) Convert to Islam is like getting a tattoo.
2) It is not that you can’t marry a Muslim unless you are a Muslim (by name) bla bla bla. It is just that Islam doesn’t allow you as a Muslim to marry a non-Muslim. Same different?
Religion is personnel. Politikus make complicate it to make control.
In our case, it’s not a choice.
It’s the law.
FA,
hee-hee
actually, i don’t think this is the case OUTSIDE of Malaysia. It is only in Malaysia that this is implemented. I stand to be corrected.
pardon my shallowness, but once, in one of the astro show, it did show a muslim girl marrying a jewish man. THey even have two separate wedding reception to celebrate both the religion differences AND YET, they could live as man and woman.
I’m not entirely sure how come that episode managed to squeeze through the censorship though.
If i’m not mistaken, it was that series “my dream wedding” or something like that.
The big question is, if they are Muslim in name only, isn’t that the same as being a non-Muslim anyway? I know Christians see people who call themselves Christian in name only as being non-Christians. So, why make a person pay lip service to a faith they really aren’t a part of except in outwards appearance? It is the same as lying, and isn’t Islam against people lying, especially about the faith they supposedly believe in?
Stupe – Is same in Indonesia as one of my friends had to convert to Islam to marry his love.
Even without law/legislation, Muslim families tend to insist whoever that is non-muslim, to convert, as much as Christian and Jewish families.
It is not just law, it is family culture/law.
Even if Malaysia stops forcing conversion by law, the family of the Muslim side would never accept anyone who isn’t a Muslim. You have quite a few hurdles to go through.
In Singapore, it’s the same thing. A non-muslim cannot get away with trying to marry a Muslim Singaporean without conversion, not without objection from the family side or the Muslim affairs department in Singapore.
Not many people know about this thing in Singapore. It’s not as strict but it seems you still have to convert if you want to marry a Muslim Singaporean, because it’s still a sensitive issue that the PAP has to give in or else the Singaporean Muslims are going to make a big issue out of this.
The price you pay for conversion is usually getting shunned by family and friends, can’t help it. Unless most of your social circles are Muslim friends, very hard to avoid the ostracization. A typical Chinese family can accept Muslim friends, neighbours, but very little tolerance for their own kin embracing Islam itself. Even my DAD vows to disown us if any of his children ever embraces Islam. Same thing with my mother.
The best arrangement would be for a couple to keep their own respective religion, and for the children, usually best for them to choose themselves but most will follow the father side. Any father would probably force it on their children but the price would be revolt, like yours truly, who rejected Christ vehemently.
All religions suck, period.
religion is very personal. nobody like to have anything shoved down their throat.
i would like to share some comments with you guys, as i studied in sekolah kebangsaan and being the only chinese in the classroom, i sit through most of the ugama classes. my understanding of Islam though superficial is enough to know that there is difference between the Islam then and now. just to be on the clear, i am not muslim :d
firstly, Islam does not allow it’s follower to convert out, if i don’t remember wrongly. it is called murtad (or something like that) and is punishable by stoning to death.
secondly, Islam have the same roots as Christian and Jew, i remember “my” ustaz says that Christian and Jew can marry Muslims without leaving their religion as technically, it is from the same God. some how, along the way, some fact got left out or distorted intentionally.
thirdly, in Islam, a wife can not divorce her husband and she can not claimed to be divorced if the husband did not officially says so in front of certain witnesses. if any woman decided to marry a muslim and should the guy decided to abandon her, she can not get nullification. it is called “gantung tak bertali”. decide wisely if this are the path decided upon.
also, i feel that those people who have converted to Islam but decided they do not want to be Islam, what’s the big hoo haa about converting out of Islam again? It is between you and your God. If in name you are Islam but in practice, you are not, would it make any difference? After you have renounced Islam, what is the difference? i have friends who “converted” to Islam for marriage but on occasion, still pray as a Buddhist?
so, there are always two side to a coin. but don’t because of your own personal foolishness, you caused the country to go into chaos. i don’t agree to body snatching by the authorities last time but nor do i agree to public renouncement of conversion out of Islam.
let the person face his own Maker at his own term. the body matters not, it is the soul in the end (for those who believed anyway) that will be answerable.
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on another note, suanie, you rock. i like your style of funny writing. i got here through viewtru blog, i don’t click on his link normally but it’s been half year almost, sigh. don’t you guys miss his witty and mou lei tao blog?
Marriage, in general, is a silly idea. Go thru all this religous hurdles, for each other, then after a few years, the partners has second thoughts about even getting married in the first place, what a mess. Then divorce…laywers, court, children, division of assets, emotional upsets, the shame of being a divorced, starting over again, finding a new partner. Another statistic.
Semporna = Sabah
3 and 5 sounds just about right.
prkat: ah well, can’t blame me
so how was the wedding? 
sf: love conquers all, nvr heard b4 meh?
jibone: 1) not necessarily elsewhere; 2) err i think it’s the same? no?
moo_t: but so easy to manipulate!
fa: show cause that one is a christian lah
stupe: a bit like ‘my big fat greek wedding’
dabs: you speak of LOGIC??? doesn’t apply to religious sentiments
tmithomas: i remember the christian/ jew/ muslim one, vaguely. you speak of logic and common sense, but like dabs, it does not apply when it comes to religion. as you said, religion is personal.. everybody’s version of personal is different lor . thanks for the kind words
yes i do miss viewtru and i hope he gets his arse on blogging again soon
jeff: hey, more cynical than me!
shan: i thought i knew that, haha but wasn’t sure
ahseng: you say only lah hah